Ahhh, nothing like a law that says “Let me see your papers.”Â Just another example of “Conservatives are not Libertarians”.
By the way, if you think illegal immigrants are just too lazy to come here legally, you might want to take a quick look at the process (yes, it’s that screwed up; I mean, come on, it was developed by, and run by the same government that couldn’t sell pussy to an established customer base).
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If you actually read the law, it was carefully crafted to avoid “racial profiling” and it mimics the exact same wording that the federal law uses.
The section E.L. is referencing is this:
Prohibits a law enforcement official or agency of the state or a county, city, town or other political subdivision of the state (political subdivision) from solely considering race, color or national origin in implementing the requirement for determining and verifying immigration status, except to the extent permitted by the U.S. or Arizona Constitutions.
Which is awful nice to say, but let’s be realistic about this, Sheriff Joe is going to encourage his deputies to check everyone whose tan looks a bit too hereditary. The only way to really avoid profiling is to document every ID check and record every ID (so race can be checked).
And. of course, none of that addresses the issue that the police can stop you and demand to see ID for no other reason than they want to.
Here’s another example why the Libertarian Party will never draw conservatives out of the Republican Party.
This is the usual hysterical bullshit from the same crowd that moaned about blood in the streets every time a CCW law has been passed. If the law is allowed to proceed the hysteria will disappear along with the majority of illegal’s. Phoenix is the kidnap center in the US reportedly with cartels kidnapping each other. The bleeding hearts that live outside of AZ should volunteer to take in the illegals or STFU.
Sorry Fred, not equivalent. CCW laws return or preserve power to citizens. The AZ law grants new power & authority to the police (agents of the government).
Also, I thought the big problem in AZ was not ID’ing illegals, but getting them deported on a consistent basis. How is ID’ing even more going to get more of them deported if ICE isn’t willing or able to do their job (or does AZ have the power to deport people)?
Ahhhh… the great illegal debate. As a resident of Arizona I am of two minds on this.
A) The libertarian in me does not like the “paper’s please” aspect of this law. However, it has been blown far, far out of proportion. This is hardly Nazi Germany.
B) Something must be done about the illegal immigration problem, especially in the border states, and the Fed.gov refuses to do anything about it. At the very least this made everyone sit up and take notice.
The odds that this bill will ever be enforced, or see the light of day, is slim to none. There are already people/groups lining up to bog this thing down in court until the end of time.
A much better solution would be to actually go after the employers of the illegal immigrants, that would do WAY more to end our problem than going after the people themselves.
I don’t think it has anything to do with how motivated (or lazy) an immigrant is to come here. Fact is, we can’t save the whole impoverished world. There is only so much our country can do.
Myles, you are spot on. Cut demand and supply will dry up.
Myles – You are right, it isn’t Nazi Germany, but if allowed, it sets a precedent that I find disturbing.
Under the current law and enforcement attitude of the fed, going after the employers is the best way to curb the problem. However, being a free-market type, I’d rather we just do a worker visa and make it legal (and then pressure the hell out of Mexico to become the Canada of the south when it deals with Americans heading south for whatever reason).
I kind of understand the libertarian standpoint but my understanding is that the AZ law is almost like the existing (unenforced) federal law.
But it requires one to be pulled over for cause, not because they look like an illegal alien.
So if you’re a “libertarian” and get pulled over for speeding, do you start accusing the officer of being a gestapo agent when he asks for your drivers license (papers), registration (papers), and insurance (papers)? Just curious. Does AZ grant a drivers license to illegal aliens?
“A much better solution would be to actually go after the employers of the illegal immigrants, that would do WAY more to end our problem than going after the people themselves. ”
There’s a big assumption that most employers who hire illegals knowingly hire them. I don’t know exact stats but based on anecdotal evidence i believe it’s a fallacy.
I work as a risk management consultant with several small businesses (construction and landscaping) who hire “immigrant” workers and a drywall installation company was actually sued for discrimination when the I-9 (immigration form) came back stating that the person (let’s call him “Sven Erickson”) was not legit and they let him go. He told the employer something to the extent of “I’ll get new papers and show up as ‘Lars Svenson’ (names changed because it sounds funnier) on Monday if that helps”. Because the guy pretty much admitted he wasn’t who he said he was, the employer let him go. They’re trying not to hire people who aren’t here legally, but if they don’t go through the official immigration rigamarole they get sued. Then the employer is stuck with legal fees etc.
Employers are stuck with (I believe) resubmitting the I-9 three times before they can let someone go for it. (the illegal “immigrant” community has been infiltrated with their own scumbag lawyers who WILL sue you for discrimination if you don’t follow through)
The incompetent government loves laying it at the feet of employers, but if someone meets the requirements of the job and has what APPEAR to be legal work papers, what’s an employer to do?
If (it’s not really rhetorical) there’s rampant illegal migration across our borders, government-issued document fraud, and overstayed visas, is that really the private sector’s fault?
Don’t let the statists trap you into blaming business. Most businessmen work within the marketplace the govt allows.
BTW sorry for the excessive rantlength