Generational warfare’s comin’ to the ballot box in 2012, folks. All the Big O thinks he has to do is shout “Social Security! Medicare!” and the baby boomers will reflexively vote against those pointing out the obvious. Or maybe do worse.
Sadly, if this lovely card is any indication, he may well be right.
Of all the demographics to think it is somehow appropriate to steal money from their youngers just to go on leeching off the public teat…
“Disappointment” does not quite cover it.
Linoge, you and I agree on a lot of things about the broken culture, but this is not one of them. In my case, I worked for a total of 46 years, paying the maximum into Social Security for 2/3 of them. That’s FOUR times the number of “quarters” I needed to collect full benefits as compared to when I first started to work (1950’s). I’d say that I qualify to receive it, and I haven’t lost a minute’s sleep feeling that I might be “robbing the younger generation”.
Linoge, when you work for your retirement as long as I did, if you still feel this way, look up my cemetery plot. I will leave instructions for you to be able to post a note there saying I was a thief. UNTIL you put in those four-and-a-half decades harnessed to the plow, your sentiments can be dismissed as those of dis-affected youth.
Have a happy life!
Rivrdog (happily adjusting to a new role as Protector of the Grey Nation’s CONTRACTUAL rights)
Actually, a 1960 supreme court case established that SS was NOT a contract, and could be changed by law at any time in any way.
Flemming V. Nestor. 1960. A good summary is at http://www.ssa.gov/history/nestor.html
I agree that some people have worked hard and long, and paid a lot in, and should get their due. Other, though…. not so much. Changing it so it is solvent for me (mid-40s) and my kids (only single-digit old), without screwing those such as yourself, will be difficult and expensive, but the sooner it’s done, the less difficult and expensive it will be for current workers, and the more folks such as yourself won’t need to be worried. Don’t oppose change just because it’s change, or we will ALL be ankle-deep in authentic kimchi, head-first.
Fine. Let’s not change Social Security whatsoever. We’ll let it go insolvent, or let payroll taxes by raised on young workers so you can keep your checks. Just remember: it will be the young generation taking care of you in your old age. And we will remember who said ‘no’ to the hard choices which needed to be made.
Like Rivrdog I too have put in my time, 42 years, and I am collecting; but I know that it cannot continue and I VOTE to change the system even though it will affect me. I don’t want my children, grandchildren and possible great-grandchildren to be burdened with such a debt and know that I didn’t try to change it for them. It has to change or we fail as free people in a free nation.
I was ready to change the system back when I was part of the AuH2ON64 movement. I had already found out that NOTHING I had paid into that Ponzi scheme counted until I hit age 21. I had been paying payroll taxes for three years at that point and still was three years away from the magic age.
REALLY, Larry? Social Security failing would end the Republic? Like drama much? By the time Social Security fails, my inflation-proof investments will be so large, relative to the worthless dollars then, that I could buy anything I wanted and have enough left over to buy a seat on the Second Republic Constitutional Convention, if that was my desire. I’m not going to die from Social Security failing, and the longer the Feds hang on with their fiat currency, the richer I become.
It’s all very fun to watch, with drama, pathos, even humor.
Drama, we have that now, just read this page. Pathos, well yes, there really ARE people who live on those paltry SSA checks, and they get converted to Soylent Green then, I guess. Humor? Sure, if you’re prepared, as I prepared all my life, for these sort of events, there is a sort of perverse humor in watching lots of folks run around screaming “the sky is falling”, then watch their reaction when it DOESN’T fall.
Yep, the Social Security issue has it all, it really IS Life itself.
DFWMTX, that threat rings hollow, because these sorts of issues actually ARE decided by gunfire, and I happen to know who those are around me who can shoot and who can’t. But, you have a point in that us oldsters might have to depend on the younger generation to take care of us. I raised two of my four children to be medical professionals, one, a nurse and the other a doctor. What can YOUR kids do for YOU?
The thing that old folks like to ignore is that they already got their value out of Social Security. It was used to subsidize a lower than real federal income tax. Sorry gang, but my kids and I don’t owe you anything. Even if we did, we ~can’t~ support you in the style you want.
My modest proposal is named “Here’s your money now shut up.”
The idea is simple; starting now every retiree will get back everything they ~personally~ paid in plus compounded interest at 3/4 of the prime rate. But when that’s gone, no more Social Security. Like Social Security, Medicare payments come out of your personal box. If the person is destitute, they can apply for welfare which will have means testing. And, being on welfare means you don’t get to vote anymore. No representation without taxation.
In case you are wondering, no I don’t think these ideas will be implemented. Nor do I think the system will be fixed. We’ll just keep going until things blow up and everyone will get a worse deal than this.
Remember, something that can’t go on forever -won’t.
Let me phrase this as clearly as I can: Screw you, Rivrdog.
I do not give a flying damn how long you worked, what “contract” you think you have with the government, or any of the rest of that self-righteous, self-serving bullshit. A non-zero percentage of every damned one of my paychecks is being summarily stolen from me with the vague and completely specious promise that I will be receiving benefits from that exact money when I reach retirement age, and instead it is being funneled straight into your bank account. Through your support of that program, that more than makes you a thief in spirit, if not in deed, completely regardless of whether or not you have the honor or integrity to voluntarily accept the title.
By their very own selves, Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, and the interest on the debt are destroying any hope this country had of salvaging itself from our current financial crisis, and since you seem so damnably eager to ride that particular engineless plane right into the goddamned ground, let me say this again: screw you. Social Security was never meant to be the sole retirement program for anyone, and, yes, if people were so damnably shortsighted as to think that it would be their only source of income when the time came, screw them as well. It is going to happen eventually, and the sooner it happens, the better it will be – this goddamned Ponzi Scheme disaster cannot continue indefinitely, and if your pathetic generation lacks the nerve to pull the plug on it, I guess it is up to mine.
I signed no contract to support you, or anyone else, in your old age. I signed no contract to pass of the mothre of all debts to my children in the future simply because fuckwits like you cannot see past the end of your pathetically upturned noses. And if you want to take this to a shooting, generational war, well, I guess you simply prove the axiom that most who would steal from you would have no problems murdering you.
SS was always a lie. It was a lie when set up in the 30’s to help those over 65 – when most people dropped dead in their 50’s. It was a lie when they claimed it was an investment for retirement. Why not just stop taxing my savings and investments and leave me the f*ck alone?
It’s a lie when they take it out of my paycheck and claim I’ll ever see it again.
It has always been about government control and vote buying. They control my money and buy oldsters votes with it. Social Security is despicable.
“DFWMTX, that threat rings hollow, because these sorts of issues actually ARE decided by gunfire, and I happen to know who those are around me who can shoot and who can’t.”
What. The. Fuck? Are you fucking serious, you syphilitic cockbag? You think it’s okay that because you got fucked by your government, it’s just dandy to go ahead and screw the next generation or three, at gunpoint if necessary?
Your whole attitude pisses me off so much I can’t even begin to articulate an appropriate response. Linoge did a good job, although he’s being far too nice in his verbiage. Suffice to say selfish fucks like you, who don’t give a shit what happens thirty years down the road because you’ll be dead anyway, deserve a special place in hell.
Rivrdog: If you thought (and continue to think) that money you paid in was for you, then you have fallen for the lie – either through naivety or self-delusion. What you paid in was to support the previous generation, and what I’m paying in now is to support your generation. Social Security is a Ponzi scheme that cannot continue for very much longer. Our only real choice is when it will collapse and who will bear the burden, not whether it will collapse, and sooner is better than later.
I feel for you – I’ve been paying into the same fraud for eighteen years. But the fact is that the .gov already spent your money. It’s gone. They’ve already spent my money. I will probably never see a penny of what I’ve paid in. But I don’t want them to keep stealing my hard earned money to give to you, or to try and give me the money they’ll be stealing from the next generation (not that the system will last that long) to keep the fraud going.
The correct time to end the scam that is Social Security is “now”, not “once I’ve gotten my money back”.