So I went out looking at SHTF vehicles yesterday. Unfortunately, I struck out.
One of the local lots had put up a large number of advertisements screaming about a ‘Huge Sale!’ They were supposedly overstocked due to the “Employee Pricing� scheme that is going around the different manufacturers. I’ve gotten deals at these things before since they usually consist of cars that the dealers don’t want to pay to have driven to the wholesale auctions and some good wheeling and dealing will net you a good vehicle at a better than fair price.
Not so at this place. There was nothing older than 1992 and once I arrived I found that there would be no haggling allowed; the price on the window was the sale price. The deals were decent but not great by any stretch of the imagination and I took a walk before the opening bell even rang as did over half of the people I saw arrive once they learned the non-advertised conditions.
Too bad for those guys.
But, in my attempts the night before to find out what vehicles they might have there I found a truck at a different dealership with close to the same name that fit my needs, at least on paper.
I found a 1986 Dodge Ramcharger with respectively low miles and a couple things I am wanting in any vehicle I buy for SHTF purposes: 4WD and a 4spd manual transmission, with a price of $995.
After I unassed the early morning car sale with nothing worth buying, I made my way to the other dealer.
I arrived shortly after they opened for business and showed the sales guy who walked out to me the print out of the ad, which was good, because the price on the windshield was still at $1995. The salesman handed me his card and went to go get the keys while I looked it over.
Here is a pic
Aside from a small amount of body cancer on the passenger side in front of the rear wheel-well the body was straight and sound. Yes, it really is red, as is the interior. The paint is oxidized to hell which would make it all the easier for me to shoot it flat black. Perfect for a truck that I can take out and not have to worry about getting scratched up.
He came back with the keys and I started it up. Aside from the usual coldbloodedness of Dodge V-8’s, it fired right up. While it was warming up and I humored the sales guy with some small talk, I started looking and listening quite intently. To my happiness, there were no odd sounds, rattles, bangs or pops.
Someone had put some small amount of time and money into the suspension, no lifting, just very sturdy and it had been upgraded from the ¼ ton springs to at least a ½ ton suspension and maybe ¾ ton. The truck also had the 32gal touring tank, a definite plus. There wasn’t anything odd or even aftermarket under the hood, Just the stock 5.9L (360ci) engine, which was a good thing. I don’t like souped up engines in four wheel drive vehicles as horsepower breaks things.
The warm up complete, I reached under the hood and kicked the engine down and it settled into a very nice purr. No misses, stumbles or grumbles. Someone had taken care of this mill.
I checked the lights and the license tabs and told the guy I wanted to drive it around for a few. He took a copy of my license and pulled the truck out to the edge of the lot for me. I hopped in and off I went.
This is where things went bad.
The clutch was waaaaay out of adjustment. Eight inches of swing but the thing didn’t lock up until the last inch. Not a problem, I can fix that in 30 minutes in the driveway.
OK, I’ve gotten used to the clutch hook up and I’m done waiting for a nice big spread in the traffic so that I can pull out onto the main drag and away I go. Holy Crap, that is a short first gear and the speedometer looks like a db meter at a Rush concert. Hell, am I even doing 15 mph? Allrighty then, into second. Damn, that was a short second too and I’m probably barely doing 30mph.
Into third I go and now I’m up to speed with the traffic around me. It too is a bit short for my liking and I’m sure that I just redlined the engine three times trying to get up to 40mph. Into 4th gear and although it rides and steers like a lumber truck, I’m on the move and things still sound good with no odd noises emanating from the truck. I go a couple of miles up the road to a large grocery store with a big and wide-open parking lot which I pull into.
I have a problem with four wheel drive vehicles in urban scenes. Not that I think it is foolish to own one, just that I have to fight the urge to drive over things like curbs, parking barriers and other easily overcome objects. So now, I’m in a parking lot full of all those things, plus sidewalks, and I’m thinking I had better get out and look for leaks lest I lose the fight going on within myself right then.
Crap, the parking brake doesn’t work. Fine. We’ll leave it running while I test the accessories. Heater works, quite well in fact and so does the fan. No spiders scrambled out of the vents so it hadn’t been sitting for too long. The wipers work although they could really use a new set of blades. I shut it off, put it in gear and go for a crawl.
When I previously said it had the steering of a lumber truck, I was speaking of the slop in the wheel. It had a minimum of 45 degrees side to side and was probably closer to 60. The steering box looked good with no visual leaks or damage so it was probably in the rack, although I couldn’t see anything out of the ordinary there either. Not a problem, probably just another hour in the driveway and maybe $150 in parts.
The engine and transmission had no visual problems so I went over to the transfer case and then down to the rear axle and found everything in order there as well. No wet, no discoloration and no damage. I was hoping to see some markings or a tag on the pumpkin that would tell me the ratio contained within, but no such luck. I’m suspecting that it is a 4.88 or even a 5.36 what with the speed shifting I had to do earlier. That is bad for daily driving since it would mean around a maximum of 12 miles per gallon and something probably closer to 8mpg.
Very bad with $3 a gallon gas.
Looking forward through the undercarriage of the truck and across the parking lot I saw something close to the land of milk and honey: An empty lot where the building had been knocked down and cleared that wasn’t enclosed by fencing yet.
Time for a test of the 4WD.
I fired the truck back up and was pleased that it did so perfectly. I shifted all the way to the right and down into reverse and heard a huge clunk. Damn, slop in the rear end or U-Joints. OK, now we’re possibly talking money for parts and things that I don’t have the tools to do at home. Oh well, let’s go play in the dirt.
Got to the edge of the parking lot, stopped and reached over to the transfer case stick and shifted into high gear and hit the gas. Four wheels spun and things were smooth, but noisy. There was a little more grinding than I wanted to hear. That could be a number of things close to half of which are bad (read: expensive). Stop again and shift into 4-Low and try some climbing around the very convenient dirt pile on the lot. Same noise, no more, no less and four wheels turn again.
OK, drive is done, time to get out before someone takes notice of me and before I get the truck dirty. I’ve come to the conclusion that the answer on this purchase is a solid no without some major price renegotiation. The drive back is pretty much the same as the drive out, I’m driving a lumber truck. I also find that if I want to downshift from 2nd to 1st, I need to double clutch or it grinds due to the maladjusted clutch.
I pull into the lot and find that the sales guy must have heard me coming because he is standing right on the edge of the lot. He enthusiastically asks how I like it. I answer with my reservations and start to work on the price. He is having none of it.
I try again and am again rebuffed.
That was too bad, especially since I had a stack of green on me right there. I switch tactics and try and work from the angle of the price of parts and must-do repairs. He denies it’ll need anything and I surmise that he either regularly drives piece of shit vehicles or hasn’t driven the thing off the lot.
What I did get out of him during our short period of so-called negotiations is that they’ve had it on the lot for over 45 days, which is a killer to a place that sells only used cars. I tell him that I am going to have to go home and price the repairs that I think it will need and that I’ll talk to him next week.
He comes back with the standard “If its still here� line to which I responded, quite kindly in my mind, that I couldn’t care less if someone else bought it before me. It’ll be their problem then.
Conclusion: I’m going to call anonymously on next Friday afternoon and see if it is still there. If it is I’ll call back shortly thereafter and ask to speak to this guy. At that time, I’ll offer him $500 cash for a clean title to it.
It is licensed until May of next year and for $500 I can bring it home and tool around in it while I fix what I can and save up for the more expensive repairs. Without replacing the transfer case it’ll need $1000 in parts and repairs. That is for everything including new front and rear gear packs and $199 to paint it flat black or brown. Add another $1000 if the transfer case needs replacement.
But even $2500 is a good price for a very capable and reliable SHTF vehicle, in my mind.
Couple of things about the Ramcharger and about 4WD.
Check out the window seal on those big back picture windows. The window seat rusts and then they leak. If the paint hasn’t been taken care of, there’s no reason to think that the rubber seal was, either. Also, if you ever break one of those strange over-curved window glasses, the replacement will cost you more than the truck.
Are you sure that’s a maladjusted clutch and not a worn-out clutch? The excess free-pedal travel could be either, and there’s really no way to tell the difference without getting the bell housing off. Of course, if you’re a decent mechanic, a new clutch isn’t expensive or a big job, but it’s still something.
I’d be suspicious about any 4wd without Warn hubs installed. That means the front drive has been put to as much wear and tear as the rear drive, and front drives are ALWAYS built lighter than rears.
The cooling systems on 360’s were trouble spots. You need to look at the antifreeze and see how cloudy it is. That will tell you how much gook there is in the radiator. If it’s brand-new, I’d be just as suspicious as if it was rusty. New means someone’s hiding something.
You didn’t say what the oil on the dipstick felt or smelled like. In an older vehicle, that’s an important clue. Gotta have a nose for it, but go to Jiffy Lube and get one of their little disclosing cards that you put a drop of oil on and it makes it separate out so you can see what impurities are in it. Your local auto parts store also has various test strips for instant analysis of the various fluids.
If you’re looking for that age of a vehicle, I would look at pickups. There are a lot of cheap bed caps for sale used, and unless you just HAVE to have access to the interior of your cargo area at all times, there are a much greater variety of pickups to choose from.
I’m starting my search, also, but I want a windowless van….
BTW, the Ramchargers can be decent vehicles. I was on an extradition once to the middle of nowhere in NV, and flew into Elko in a blizzard. I was looking at a 160-mile round-trip drive in the snow. I upgraded my rental sedan to a 4WD, and it was a Ramcharder, about that age. Great vehicle. Of course, it was new, and it had deluxe everything inside, but even with agressive snow tires, it was a decent ride on the highway, and if I recall, got about 14 mpg. The convict liked the big back seat which, after making sure I could see him in the mirror, I let him lie down in. There was never more than 6″ of snow on the road, and the Ramcharger was never seriously challenged in 4WD. The front drive Sprague gear acted smoothly, without the jerks in power turns that can cause a spin-out in some vehicles (Jeeps and the old 4wd Eagles).
3 comments on one post. Whew! This is applicable to buying any older vehicle though.
Stay off the used car lots. Buy only from private individuals (but don’t buy quick or you may get a bad title), or buy from the auto auction.
There are a lot of small-time dealers, mostly guys like you and I who have real jobs, but like to mess around with old vehicles in our spare time. Some of these guys have gotten themselves dealer’s licences (actually not very expensive or time-consuming to do). when you have such a licence, you can deal at the auto auction.
You go on their inspection day, which can be inconvenient. You need to find out what their un-busiest hours are, so you can get some personal attention. Pick out a vehicle, and show up for the auction. If you are friendly, or have an in, they will tell you what order the vehicles are going in. You will see the vehicle drive through. You have to listen carefully to all the disclosures, which, In OR anyway, have to include crash data or if the veh. is a rebuilt wreck. There HAVE to be clear titles on ALL auction vehicles by law.
The best thing about the auctions is that you can upgrade to a much newer vehicle for the same price as something older from a used car lot. At auction, that same $2,000 that is burning a hole in your pocket would have gotten you a pickup in the early 90’s. I’ve seen 3-5 year old 4WD’s go for well under $10K, loaded vehicles.
Take Blue book and subtract at least 25% for auction prices, but it’s a slam-bang showdown at the auction, and you have to be on your toes there. No room for rubes.
oh, sheesh, dude stay away from Dodge. I mean, I’ve had some that were decent vehicles, but in the main, the electrical troubles they commonly have are more likely to leave you having to be rescued, than being a rescuer. And murphy being who he is, the bastard will leave you stranded on the leading edge of a hurricane. Not fun. For my money; a v6 Bronco2 or Blazer or even a v6 Exploder sport (2 door) is a better deal; they can be made to get 20 mpg, they can do everything the bigger trucks do (stock bigger trucks, that is)and you can get one ready to drive down the road for that $2500. You can ALSO park them for a year and they’ll start and run with no effort.
BTW, having just returned from vacation, I believe I may have inadvertently messed up a trackback you left, please check and let me know and I’ll fix.
Thanks!
If you’re looking for a 4wd van, I ran across one on Ebay Motors the other day. It’s not windowless, but it’s big as any I’ve seen, and it’s in Bellevue, so not far from you. Here it is:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Dodge-Power-Wagon-V8-4×4-Van-15-passenger-4×4-van-Very-Unique-Vehicle_W0QQitemZ4577721439QQcategoryZ39413QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Interesting vehicle. Sounds like someone threw a huge amount of $$$ at it, then stopped dead in their tracks. Maybe went broke rebuilding it. Dodge 4X4 vans are rare, but there are a few more Fords and Chevs. Note the huge rear overhang (with a droopy fuel tank under the overhang) on the maxi-van. That makes the 4X4 pretty much window dressing, because the van has a ramp breakover angle of less than a sedan with that overhang. You can’t go off road with it, maybe just take a slightly muddier or snowier road, is all.
The Ford 4X4 vans can be found with the Navistar Diesel, now known as the Powerstroke. Quite a few RVers who pulled big trailers ordered those, and they are out there on the used market.
I will be looking nationally for one of those, as I am familiar with that engine, having worked on them once in the military.
I don’t know if Dodge ever put the Cummins in a van, but I don’t think so. Wish I could afford a new Dodge Sprinter tall van, they are sweet, and have the Cummins.
Another possibility might be something like a 20 foot Mitsubishi Fuso forward-cab van, if I can afford one. Those little 3.9 diesels just sip the fuel, and there’s room for a Marine Power alternator under that box, although for about the same $$$ I could put a small Kohler Diesel genset under the van body.
Another possibility is a used Short Bus. I would probably strip out the lift, but most of them are diesels also. The idea is maily cube capacity for cargo, but I also need a one-ton chassis for built-in tankage of water and fuel. Dually rear axle is a plus, also, solves the spare tire issue.
Lots of possibilities.