Namely, the SHOT Show
Friend and co-worker, Paul, sends word that Kel-Tec is going to make something you’ll want.
This
Called the RFB for Rifle Forward ejection Bullpup, it is chambered in 7.62mm — utilizes FN FAL magazines — and comes with barrel lengths of 18″, 24″, and 32″.
The RFB in the pic is the 18in model. Also in the link are pics of their brochures and pics of the 32in “Target” model.
My wallet is going to be in pain, provided the accuracy is within the “Decent” range.
I find that I do want that… Bu buy AR-15…
K
Coupla things. Kel-Tec already makes several fine varieties of it’s SU-16 rifle, including some models that are physically very short. If you are a fan of the poodleshooter round, which I’m not, you may buy one for around $600-$800, depending on features, which is very reasonable compared to other 5.56 NATO offerings out there.
I expect that this new rifle in the more manly 7.62 NATO caliber is going to cost at at least $800, and more likely bump $1,000. Since I can buy TWO CETMEs, or get close to other battle rifles for that money, I’ll probably pass.
Bullpups are not designed for fighting at the long range which the 7.62 NATO is capable of. Especially bullpups with a short-range electro-optical sight on them as pictured. The whole idea of a bullpup is to make a smaller package and sacrifice the longest ranges. They are an urban, street-sweeping sort of weapon, and actually, the 7.62 NATO is somewhat overgunned for that role. Don’t forget that if you are slinging a lot of lead in the urban battle scene, first you have to carry that lead to battle, in magazines. That is why we went to 5.56 in the first place.
That brings us back to the Russ, who had a better idea: the 7.62X39, more manly than the poodleshooter round (although they eventually bought off on their own, the 5.45), but still light enough to pack 200 of them on your day’s exercises up close and personal with the baddies.
You can buy TWO WASR-10s for what this new Kel-Tec bullpup is going to cost, or two used Mini-30s if you insist on buying ‘Murican. If you want bullpup, for $130, you can get a plastic bullpup stock for the Mini-30, so, for no more $$$ than the Kel-Tec, and probably quite a bit less (which will fit nicely into your ammo budget), you can have the IDEAL street-sweeper.
Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE Kel-Tec and have bought several of their products (pistol-caliber carbines), and constantly advise everyone else to do the same, but this weapon is an oddity. Kel-Tec is not a huge outfit, and for them to spend all the resources they did on developing this rifle, my guess is that they built it to someone else’s specs. If that’s the case, it won’t see civilian hands until the military order is satisfied, or they will have to short their other lines to build it. Another possibility is that the rifle will NEVER see a civil build run, because if their military customer gets cold feet, it doesn’t pay them to keep the line going on the speculation that it will sell enough to give them a profit.
I also saw somewhere that it wasn’t expected to hit the market until 2008. Which kinda matches with Rivrdog’s analysis: the military customers will get them first in 2007.
You can download the PDF flyer for the gun at:
http://www.kel-tec.com/images/downloads/RFB_Flyer_SHOT_2007_web.pdf
Some info you’ll glean if you read the linked KTOG thread: MSRP is about $2500 (and up for the target version). I love KT, but youch, a little expensive for me. It comes in target versions with an incredibly long barrel (thanks to the bullpup design) and what sounds like a very nice adjustable trigger. Not available until at least 2008, bummer.
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What? No Magpul Masada commentary? That’s the one that’s got all the Arfcommers all hot and bothered.
‘Course, they’re poodlegun fans almost by definition.
And fora bullpup, I think better than the 7.62×39 or 7.62×51 would be the passed-over .280 Brit, which was originally designed for a bullpup weapon.
A “target” bullpup, huh? Sounds like a contradiction in terms. I’ve never even heard of anyone bringing a bullpup rifle to a competition. I suppose you could, but why would you? The long, heavy stock and barrel of target weapons gives exactly the stability to the weapon that the bullpup design takes away.
Maybe a three-gun competition, but then, those are streetsweeper contests to start with, and the bullpup was designed for streetsweeping.
Heartless, if you want a REAL bullpup, in a MAN’S caliber, you can have Accuracy Systems build you a bullpup around a Mini-30 receiver, in .50 Beowulf, or 6.8, or any of the several WSSM calibers, and it won’t cost anywhere near $2,500. How you finance shooting the weapon in any of those exotic calibers is your business, and reporting for militia duty armed with a rifle which sports a brass catcher might earn you a few yuks from the assembled host.
I have a buddy who wisely bought a Steyr AUG when they were openly sold, way before 1986, and if it were in 7.62X39, I’d have to say that I was looking at the best all-around firearm available, the “what you get when you can only get one” gun. It’s still way ahead of any Stoner rifle or AK-74.
A target bullpup is an interesting idea. You would be able to have a much longer barrel for the same overall length as other rifles, so you’d be able to get more velocity out of a given load.
I’ve actually seen one bolt-action bullpup over at precisionlongrangehunter.com. The pic is here: http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=4309687
One of the nice things to me about the Kel-Tec .308 design is that ejection tube that spits the cases out the front. Southpaw-friendly!
OK, RTFF, Rivrdog. According to their flier, they’re not really planning to produce these as a bullpup weapon, per se. They chose the bullpup design so that they could stuff a 32″ barrel into a battle-length rifle, and their purpose for doing THAT is to have a battle rifle which will compete in the sniper rifle arena with the .338 Lapua rifles.
Their info on an upgraded .308 round with 210-grain bullet AND a huge powder load makes sense, from a ballistic coefficiency standpoint. That essentially makes a magnum round out of the .308 I guess in that case, you don’t reload the brass which will be overstressed by that near-proof loading.
So you are a sniper, and you take one of these target models into battle, and you have a supply chain to supply you with the special ammo. That’s what it’s all about. The fact that they even mention a carbine model or a “sporter” model with a 24″ barrel is interesting. In their position, I wouldn’t have bothered.
BTW, does anyone else think that Forward Ejection System is goiing to cause problems in the field?
Rivrdog-if I’m going to go for a bullpup in an odd caliber, my choice would be the aforementioned .280 Brit (which, back in the 50s, the testers at Ft Benning preferred over the 7.62×51, but were overruled by the Ordnance Dept) or the 6.5 Grendel (especially now that the first boatload of Wolf ammo in that caliber has docked.)
If I may just interject here: isn’t the barret Model 95 of the “Target Bullpup” design?
Granted, it is a .50cal, but I’m sure you’d see one in the “Fifty Caliber Ghetto” at Boomershoot which requires 1MOA accuracy.