Yesterday I spoke of snatching myself up an M1A before the “Pelosi/Schumer Ban All Scary Looking Guns Act” goes into effect.
Cabinboy stopped by and mentioned a few things that I took him up on. While I’m grateful for the info, I somewhat wished I hadn’t.
And this is why.
I haven’t looked into the M1A/M14/M21 line of rifles in a very long time. I think they are beautiful rifles. Likewise, they are usually quite accurate and very reliable by design, which is why the eagle-eyed guys in both Iraq and Afghanistan are still using them.
Unfortuantely for us, they’re still using them. I had figured that due to the AWB being over and done with and the market’s demand for them skyrocketing, that someone would be making USGI Spec parts for these rifles.
Long story short, they’re not. Springfield is even running out of NM sights and is restricting who they sell them to and on which rifles they install them.
And unless you have a couple of nice crisp Franklins in your hand and can talk a guy out of them, you won’t ever get yourself a pair. And those are just sights. Any and all MN grade USGI spec parts (which are the only ones worth a shit) are 1. Hard to find, and 2. Fucking expensive.
To shorten up another long story, I’m not paying twice as much as I should because some manufacturer wants to sit on their inventory and make a mint. I’m a faithful consumer who believes in the market at work, and I’m here to say that this section of the market is telling said manufacturer that he’s going somewhere else. Said manufacturer has earned The Order of the Imperial Upraised Middle Finger from me.
I am also not going to waste time looking for one second-hand because finding “the right one” takes time. Buying “the right one” over the internet is impossible and, what with the news of folks buying up AR parts at a high rate after Tuesday’s results came out, just finding one that is close to “the right one” that someone is willing to part with will prove difficult at any price. And because buying anything less than “the right one” will mean that the new purchase needs “something” that I don’t have the extra time/money for.
The US Military is going to take another decade to find a replacement for the M14/M21 so there won’t even be any decent used USGI Spec parts on the market for at least five years after that.
To add to that thought, does anyone here remember what happened last time the military decided to cut loose some of these rifles? It is the #1 reason I was disgusted with Clinton.
He cut thousands of them up and sold them for scrap. Straight up told the DCM to stick it where the sun don’t shine and that he was ordering these excellent rifles to be turned into paperweights. He could have saved my mother from a runaway train, sacrificing both of his legs in the process, and I would still hold that against him.
Who is that that just won both houses of Congress? Yeah, and now you know who will order the next batch of M14/M21s to the scrap heap and not to the parts bins/DCM rack.
I don’t know why someone else hasn’t stepped in to become a parts manufacturer. Everytime I’ve visited Olympic Arms (aka: Schuetzen Gun Works) I’ve asked them and they, quite literally, have no answer. Even if they just pumped out NM OpRods and barrels they would make enough money to cover the loss I’ve heard they’re taking on their Wolverine pistol.
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OK, now that I’m done ranting, here is the plan: FN/FAL or, the one I really like, the PTR HK91/G3 clone.
I have shot both an original FN/FAL and an original G3. I like them both, though again, I like the G3 more because I am more accurate and more comfortable with it’s ergonomics. Parts are plentiful for both, and while not cheap, they are quite reasonable.
I would like to ask folks for their reviews if they own them. If you know of someone who does, send them here so I can annoy them with inquisitive questions.
I’m stuck waiting on POF to come out with their uppers in 6.5 Grendel. They say they’re waiting for Wolf/Prvi Partisan to start producing ammo, which apparently is waiting on Alexander Arms’ QC approval.
I’ve got a Garand, the old 8-shot .30-06 version – but what I’m putting together is a tactical M1 Carbine — ok, ok so it’s just a forearm rail with a red-dot in a plastic stock and being in CA I’m limited to 10-round mags. Oh joy. But it’s gonna be kewl, I hope…
DSA makes a couple California versions of the FAL and a nice line of cool products that I can’t afford – I was mainly interested in shooting an improved semi-auto in Service Rifle and since they don’t qualify I haven’t pursued it…you can get them in .260 Rem .243 Win besides .308 Win.
I know you just said your not getting one, however, I’ve found this to be useful site.
Doing a little local gun store recon yesterday, and saw an FN/FAL, which is probably gone by now, for $800, about half of what they want for an M1A. See my blog: http://rivrdog.typepad.com/rivrdog/2006/11/gun_store_recon.html
There’s more good news. For about the price of the M1A, there’s an outfit, http://www.accuracysystemsinc.com/ that will build you a Ruger Mini-30 in 6.5 Grendel, or some of the WSSM calibers, or even .50 Beowulf. The Ruger Mini-30 led a charmed life in the last AWB, getting a specific exemption. Can’t guarantee that’ll happen this time, but it might. Ruger is paving the way by selling the rifle only with 5-round magazines, but fortunately, the hi-caps are available all over the place. As we speak, many UPS trucks are converging carrying said goodies.
Not surewhere your definition of ‘pricey’ starts, but in M-14/M1A land you might also check out . Their prices start at $2k for a service rifle and go up (way up) from there, so, again, depends on your definition of ‘pricey.’ But I’ve heard nothing but good stuff about them.
Thanks guys for the links and the info.
For this exercise though, I’ll be staying away from all non-current/former mil-spec cartridges. Also, this is not the project to “wait†for anyone/thing. It is “buy now for tomorrow we all die†time because I wouldn’t put it past Pelosi/Schumer to write a retroactive law back to when they got their “man-dateâ€. If I’m buying one, I’ll have to buy two, which will turn into a need for four, and then I’ll have to round that off to five, just because my head works like that. Then of course, we have parts and PM supplies.
Now, I’m sure you can see why I was getting frustrated with Springfield.
That site Brass linked up is interesting, with nearly 15% off SA’s MSRP on everything. I could almost just give in and just go with a couple (5) Scout Rifles. I’ve already got a EOTechs that might work on the rails, but then again, is the parts question.
George, I had saw your blog yesterday and read about the price of said FAL, which is why those models were kept on the list. However, I do have minimum specifications for every rifle I’m looking for here, and you said something about the receiver was “brushed chrome� Yeah, no shiny on the battle rifles. Makes my overly large ass and even bigger target.
Dirt, thankee for the link to DSA. I was sitting at work last night trying to remember who made the FAL Austrian and was drawing a blank.
HL, I think the name of whom you were speaking of got edited out. Please try again. My definition of pricey starts as $2K, but I’m flexible (OK, actually, the wife is being flexible. It is my money after all).
Grrr…it was Fulton Armory. http://www.fulton-armory.com
I also recently came across West Texas Armory, who also build their own. http://www.westtexasarmory.com. Theirs start at $1790 for a standard and $2k for match.
Yeah, I’m sure whoever built that FN/FAL put that bright receiver on it to make it look less like an “evil black” battle rifle. That’s easy to fix with a metal etching fluid. Easy to tone down.
If it’s still in the shop Monday when I go back in for some MORE Mini-30 mags (can’t have too many since it appears they are doomed), I may have to dip into the emergency fund and buy it.
But, for the same money, I could get a new “all-weather” Mini-30 and put some glass on it….decisions, decisions.
The same gun store also had some Universal M1 carbines for $300 each. Three of them, I think. Anyone on this string know anything about them? I used to have one, but it was a GI weapon, very nice. Had to sell it to pay taxes about 30 years ago.
Then again, maybe I should order a pair of Kel-Tec Sub 2000 carbines. They are almost a “universal” weapon because they take the VERY common Glock magazines.
Some serious thnking to do before the door closes…
Thankee HL for the links.
RD, just from what I’ve heard, but the parts in the Universal made M1s aren’t all that great. Soft metal in them and/or the receivers.
KelTec sound better, in my mind.
But if I may make a comment, you might want to start thinking of “groups” of weapons. Myself, I’ve “grouped” SKSs, for a multitude of reasons (parts, caliber and all around commonality).
Having two of the same is nice, but having 10-12 of the same is better. Don’t spread yourself too thin. Watch how the gov does it and mimic their purchases if the funds are there. Otherwise, go for what you can afford. In my case SKSs and 7.62×39/870s and 12ga/1911s and 45acp, though I may have to start branching into 9mm for the wife and likesized womenfolk who don’t agree with centerfire rifles (So, if you have them, leave some links for the KelTec carbines).
If you are thinking along the lines of “captured” ammo, remember that if you “capture” the ammo, you will most likely “capture” the firearms as well.
I like that JAE-100 stock West Texas Armory sells, too…more ‘sniper’ and less ‘space-gun EBR’ that Fulton’s Sage stock.
Unless you’ve got access to military tech-ie, night sighting laser systems, etc-the average civilian doesn’t really need all the rails on the Sage, anyway.
I’ve got a Century franken-FAL.
I really like it.
It’s always gone bang on command, and the only issue I had was with the original magazine that came with it, which has since been made into scrap metal. Probably why it was on consignment at the gun shop…
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Dirtcrashr and I are stuck here in the land of sun and no AWs. Oh to be able to buy a real FAL! I’m really enjoying my Kel-Tec SU-16CA (I don’t mind poodleshooters; .223 seems fine to me for most social purposes with non-ball rounds), and since I can get two for less than the price of an M1 around here, that’s the way I’m gonna go.
Back on Halloween when I picked up the Contender, there were two SU-16s on the rack. One of them was the older model, with an M4-style set of front rails kitbashed onto it, which you don’t see every day. I thought about putting some cash down on the other one so the wife and I can train together. Didn’t, of course.
Damn it, I’m sure both rifles have an extra $100 or more on the price tag by now.
FALFILES.com is the place to go for the poop oin the FAL. They also do a lot of talk on the G-3. I like the FAl because you can still build a nice one for under $700. My first was done almost ten years ago with a StG-58 kit and an Imbel receiver cost was under $400 including paying the guy to build it.
I have a PTR-91, the straight-up version. I’ve owned it almost 2 years now. I absolutely love it. It’s very accurate (1MOA or better with match ammo, 2MOA with surplus), perfectly reliable, built like a tank, and just tons of fun. Mags are cheap right now ($2-3!). I’ve even shot mine in a few small 3-gun competitions with just the stock iron sights and have placed second twice–once because it was literally pouring rain (never seen it rain so hard and you started this stage with gun and mag on the table, bolt open, essentially letting it fill with water) and I had one of the few guns that didn’t have a problem with that.
If there’s any downside it’s that HK accessories like scope mounts, different furniture, etc. are getting harder to find and more expensive. .308 surplus is getting the same way, good stuff is about extinct, but you’d have that same issue with the M1. Cleaning it is a big of a chore too, especially if you use dirty ammo. A chamber brush speeds the job up immensely.
I give it two thumbs up and I’d buy another in a heartbeat.
That should have read “bit of a chore” above.
Anyhow, shoot me an email if you have questions on the rifle, I don’t mind.
They’ve gone up in price since I bought mine (mine was around $700) but I still think they’re the best value out there in a battle rifle.
I’ve thought about a M1A for a long time. Always decided against because of the price, and that was before things shot up.
I like them, but not enough to pay the current price for them.
If you can pick up a new M1A/M14 (they are available minus original receivers) I guarantee that you will absolutely love it. For the best feel, get the walnut stock. My love affair with the M14 goes back to 1966 and my first Marine Corps issue weapon. The “boy and his gun” thing. I was one of the last to switch over to the M16 in Viet Nam and missed my M14. It was heavier, and naturally carrying ammo was more difficult, but there was a love affair that was beyond explanation. Jimmy Carter should be charged with war crimes for ordering the destruction of so many such beautiful works of art.
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